17
Aug
09

Anyone out there still think that a “punishment-based” coaching style makes a kid tough and doesn’t pose a threat? Read this!

Some of you may not have seen nor heard about this one.

Click on the title above to read and if you’re one of my AD friends, get your anonymous nickname and let me know what you would do if it was your coach who did this?

If you’re a coach, what side of this argument are you on?

If you’re a parent, tell me what should happen in this case?

I’ll try to hold my opinions til later.

Thanks

Coach Tony

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8 Responses to “Anyone out there still think that a “punishment-based” coaching style makes a kid tough and doesn’t pose a threat? Read this!”


  1. August 17, 2009 at 8:29 AM

    Stinson’s lawyers want charge of endangerment dismissed

    The Jefferson commonwealth’s attorney’s office on Thursday disclosed the names of two expert medical witnesses who will testify that former Pleasure Ridge Park High School football coach Jason Stinson’s Aug. 20 practice, in which players were allegedly made to run until someone quit, caused the death of a player who collapsed.

    Dr. Doug Casa, director of athletic training education at the University of Connecticut and a national leader in heat-stroke prevention, will testify that Stinson created an environment where Max Gilpin, 15, believed he could not stop running “even if it was medically necessary to do so,” which caused the massive heat stroke that led to the teen’s death three days later, according to court records.

    Another witness, Dr. Larry Shoemaker, will testify at Stinson’s Aug. 31 trial on reckless homicide and wanton endangerment charges that Max died of “exertion-induced heat stroke.”

    At the same time, on Thursday, Stinson’s attorneys filed a motion asking a judge to dismiss the wanton endangerment indictment, claiming Stinson was denied an opportunity to speak to the grand jury.

    On Tuesday, seven months after Stinson was charged with reckless homicide, a Jefferson County grand jury indicted him on a new charge of first-degree wanton endangerment in the death of Max, who collapsed Aug. 20 and died three days later at Kosair Children’s Hospital, after his body temperature had reached 107 degrees.

    Defense attorneys Alex Dathorne and Brian Butler claim that under Kentucky criminal procedure rules, prosecutors must inform grand jurors when a defendant wants to testify before them, though the jurors don’t have to allow the testimony.

    The grand jury was not told Stinson wanted to testify, even though jurors repeatedly asked questions as to what the former coach told police, according to the motion.

    Assistant Commonwealth’s Attorney Jon Heck said prosecutors would discuss the motion in court on Friday.

    Max and a second player collapsed during the practice, in which PRP coaches were alleged to have withheld water and continued to run players on a day when the heat index reached 94 degrees. The second player, a senior, spent two days in the hospital.

    Prosecutors say Stinson repeatedly denied players water during practice despite receiving extensive training in the dangers of heat-related illnesses. He also is alleged to have forced players to run extra wind sprints – called gassers – as punishment for not practicing hard enough.

    The reckless homicide indictment, Dathorne and Butler said in Thursday’s motion, was based on “inaccuracies and the speculations” of prosecutors without any evidence from a medical expert.

    Defense attorneys have in recent weeks asked a judge to prohibit testimony that players were denied water or ran more than normal at the practice, arguing the allegations are not relevant to the death.

    The defense contends that the commonwealth’s attorney’s office doesn’t have an expert medical opinion stating that water deprivation or excessive running at the practice caused Max’s death.

    “Faced with the possibility of having most of their evidence deemed not relevant,” prosecutors indicted Stinson on a new charge “in the hope that if they throw enough distorted, bad-character evidence against the proverbial wall maybe they can so prejudice a jury that they can salvage some sort of conviction,” according to the motion.

    But prosecutors in a motion filed Thursday accused Stinson’s attorneys of “simply trying to sanitize this case of any relevant evidence which potentially places the defendant in a bad light.”

    Assistant Commonwealth’s Attorneys Heck and Leland Hulbert argued that evidence that Stinson stopped players from getting water and called them “cowards” is relevant because it proves Stinson’s “state of mind at the time of the incident” and shows he took “unjustifiable risks to the players’ safety by choosing to ignore the players’ signs of heat related illness.”

    “…Belittling a player for succumbing to his body’s signals to stop conditioning and delaying his players’ need for water for any period of time after the gassers illustrate the defendant’s primary focus on punishment and control that day rather than player safety,” the prosecution argues in its motion.

    Stinson will be arraigned on the new charge on Friday and prosecutors say they will allow him to remain free on his own recognizance.

  2. 2 Joshua Krav
    August 17, 2009 at 10:42 AM

    Total b.s.

    If your kid is too scared to get a drink or stop what he is doing if he feels sick…it isnt the coaches fault. In today’s day and age we want to blame everyone else for our mistakes. Nobody wants to take responsibility for their own actions.

  3. 3 Diane
    August 17, 2009 at 10:22 PM

    I don’t necessarily agree with Joshua. As an Athletic Trainer (though not currently working as one)I have seen alot of coaches do some STUPID things. Do I think this coach “intentionally” meant to harm anyone – absolutely not. But think about it – athletes, young ones especially, do not always know HOW to listen to their bodies. They’re out there pushing themselves hard (alot of times in repsonse to a coach’s “encouragement”)and don’t realize where the breaking point is. Heck, they may be thinking “if I just work harder I’ll get in shape faster…”. Yes, coaches do put pressure on these kids – and like the kids, they may not always know where the breaking point is either. It’s a tough call for a coach – especially if they don’t know the kid really well. Fortunately, I have worked with quite a few coaches that didn’t take chances (the threat of lawsuits has helped in that regard)and listened to the medical staff in situations like this (if I remember correctly, there was not an athletic trainer on site during this incident – which brings up a good point – schools are CRAZY for not employing a certified Athletic Trainer – although that’s still not a guarentee since I have seen coaches completely ignore what the AT told them to do). However, if this coach indeed withheld water during the practice, then yes – he is ABSOLUTELY responsible for this players death!!!! Every idiot knows how crucial water is in the heat – especially during heavy excercise!! Again, we are talking about a young kid!!! The coach is supposed to be the “responsible adult”. The poor kid was probably just working his ass off to prove himself to the coach. It was the coach’s responsibility to “supervise” these kids. Think about it – if it was your kid would you be thinking “well, if you’re not smart enough to listen to your body and stop/get water, then it’s your fault”. I doubt it…

  4. August 18, 2009 at 1:32 PM

    Diane

    You’re being far too kind. Josh, are you for real???

    These kids didn’t DECIDE not to get water, they were told they weren’t ALLOWED to get water. This absolute moron of a coach decided it was a good idea to make these kids and I’ll repeat MAKE these kids run until someone quit. All this in blaring heat with full pads. This idiot was fully trained in heat related illness and injury and still did this. On top of this, his retarded lawyers are trying to convince a Grand Jury that denying these kids water during this insane practice was “not relevant to the death”

    I’ve heard of the blind leading the blind but this is clearly a case of the retarded leading the stupid.

    One kid dies and another spent two days in the hospital because of this horrible person’s negligence and total disregard for the safety of the children he was responsible for.

    There isn’t a hot enough place in hell for this loser. Once he’s convicted, I hope he serves his full term with a sledge hammer banging rocks and I want to be the guy who is there when HE asks for water.

    Anyone else have a thought on this one?

  5. 5 Withheld
    August 18, 2009 at 3:58 PM

    Heat index of 94, run until someone quits and no one gets water? Most of the sprints with full equipment on! Even the Kenyans get water every mile when they run.
    Joshua: when was the last time you were on a sports field of any kind with a bunch of kids? They absolutely do NOT want to look like quitters or seem “soft” in front of their friends, especially in a “tough” sport like football.
    Top it off with the fact that many of these “coaches” have never done 1/2 of what they are asking the kids to do, and you have a recipe for disaster. Frankly, it’s a miracle that we don’t hear about stories like this more often.
    You want personal responsibility? Make every coach participate in the running/sprinting once in a while and see how they feel about it then. And look closely: the kid who died was actually the SECOND player who collapsed on the field that day. Another player had collapsed 15 minutes earlier! This is NOT the same as the parent who sued Little League over the bad slide and won. This is total and complete negligence on behalf of the coach.
    By the way, where was this idiot’s assistant coaches at the time? Kids who are afraid to stand up to their coach are one thing, but other parents too? If someone gets hurt playing the sport they chose to play, that is an accident that hopefully they can recover from and come back to play again. But as an assistant coach who HAS confronted a head coach for overworking kids, I think the whole thing stinks. And as a father, I will have no pity on the so-called coach who puts my son and others in harms way (intentional or not).

  6. 6 Eric
    August 21, 2009 at 9:48 AM

    Please tell us that Joshua is a “made up” response to get this topic going. There can’t REALLY be a real person named Joshua that actually thinks that way. If he is real, I certainly hope he isn’t coaching any child sport.

  7. August 21, 2009 at 12:41 PM

    Eric

    You can’t really be surprised that there are people who think this way, especially when it comes to football but I have to ask you this. If his name was something other than “Joshua” would you be less surprised? That gave me a chuckle…

    The fact that this coach is up on charges proves that there ARE indeed people who feel this way. I personally can’t imagine the circumstances under which I would do what that coach did but there are plenty of hazing and physical punishment stories around so this case may simply be one that sets precedent for future a-hole coaches.

    I’m going to watch this one closely and hope that justice is served.

    T

  8. 8 Joshua Krav
    August 21, 2009 at 1:14 PM

    The answer is yes…I both play competitive sports as well as coach them. Let me get this straight….the coach didn’t allow them to get a drink? Did he hide the drinks? Did he physically prevent his kids from getting a drink?

    Joshua: when was the last time you were on a sports field of any kind with a bunch of kids? They absolutely do NOT want to look like quitters or seem “soft” in front of their friends, especially in a “tough” sport like football.

    Kids have to learn that it is much tougher to stand up to a loud mouth coach or walk off the field and “look” a certain way in front of their “friends” then it is to run themselves into the ground. I don’t know about you…but my real friends and real teammates would have my back if I made a decision to stop doing something because I was worried about my health or safety.

    So am I to understand that if the coach had them all line up and run into a concrete wall to toughen them up…then they should do that too. I mean remember….they wouldn’t want to seem “soft”.

    Where do you draw the line. At what point do you stop blaming other people or take responsibility for your own actions.

    Bottom line….99.9% of your kids and the kids you coach will never make it it pro or college sports….so why dont you try teaching them more important life lessons like how to deal with peer pressure, self esteem, etc.


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